Rebecca's story
Speaker 1
So, Rebecca, can you tell me what your life circumstances were when you found out about this pregnancy that we're talking about today?
Speaker 2
Yeah, so I had a, trying to think how old my little one it was at the time, three, three year old little boy, and a very busy little boy. And I, we'd been trying to conceive for two years. So when he just turned one, we started trying to conceive, and it had been really difficult. Um, you know, kind of busy as well working full time, looking after a little boy. And we'd undergone... I'd had, I've had, I've had fertility issues from a young age - polycystic ovaries. So I thought that the first pregnancy would be hard to, you know, I'd always been told I might have fertility issues. But I didn't, I was very blessed, and had my first child. And then, it you know, it was really difficult to become pregnant again. I was aware of my age and just wanting, you know, and my partner's age too, to have a second child. So we sought some help, and I was told to stop breastfeeding, so I did and then was given a fertility drug - Clomid. And became pregnant and was absolutely overjoyed, you know, after two years of hoping, and yes, that's the sort of, my life circumstances at the time.
Speaker 1
And you mentioned feeling overjoyed about finding out you're pregnant. Is that, does that sort of summarise how you felt about that pregnancy?
Speaker 2
Yes, yeah. Absolutely. And kind of, no sense of thinking that I would lose the baby. You know, because that hadn't been my, my own experience at that time. Because I'd had a good first pregnancy. And also, because I thought the main hurdle was getting pregnant. And we got through that, so yeah.
Speaker 1
So how did you find out that there was a problem with the pregnancy?
Speaker 2
So it was it was relatively early on. And, and it was just before the 12 week scan. And it was Christmas, Boxing Day, and I just started to bleed. So yeah, it was just, we'd told the family the day before, you know, on Christmas. And yeah, just, just, it just was a complete sort of surprise. But I think I knew from from that point, really just from, just spotting, I just had this terrible sense of dread. And, you know, I've been thinking about it before talking to you. And one thing that had happened that was very strange the day before, was that we'd, my granddad was quite elderly, and we'd taken him home, given him a lift home. From kind of, the family Christmas. And we were at my parents house. And he just, just out of the blue told, sort of talking about, just told him I was pregnant, talked about my grandma had lost a baby. And he'd never spoken about it before. And he just said it quite matter of factly, he's a sort of scientist is his background. Very matter of fact, he said, oh, well, she just went to the toilet, and came back and said that she'd delivered a fetus. And she was, a midwife. That's what he said, because she was a midwife, she was very matter of fact, they'd never spoken about it before. And I often think about that, it was so strange that that happened the next day. So yeah. And then it sort of happened over a few days, basically. Just increased bleeding. And just hoping you know, just kind of sitting, I just remember sitting really, really still and just thinking this isn't happening. If I just rest, if I just rest then something, you know, it will be okay, you know? And so we went, we ended up going to the emergency A&E, and sort of waiting in the waiting room. I just remember clutching a little kind of stone that my friend had given me, just really clutching it and hoping. And then when we eventually saw the GPs, and she said, have you been overdoing it? So that was the first thing she said to me? And I just thought, well, of course, you know, it's Christmas, I've got a three year old, you know, of course, and I'd had a kind of busy, kind of work period before. So you immediately kind of take on that, what have I done wrong? You know, and I think that's quite important to say, because, you know, of course, I hadn't done anything wrong. But your instinct is to think what have I done wrong? We were just told to go home and that nothing could be done. They, they couldn't give me a scan. And just to go and rest. And so we did. And I think it was that night, that basically, I burst, the baby. And it was, you know, kind of, I think that was the most shocking thing about it that I hadn't, I had no knowledge of when people talk about miscarriages is that, you know, even at that early stage, it's a birth and a trauma. And I was in my brother's childhood bedroom, which was absolutely bizarre. And it was really odd that, that I was at my parents house, because we weren't at home, we had traveled for Christmas. But I was really glad that they were there. Because my mum just came in and to be perfectly graphic, which I think, again, it's important to be, she came in with some towels. And you know, and she said, you know, you might want to think about keeping what, what comes out. And again, you don't think about that. And I'm so grateful. Because then we were able to bury the little, you know, what was lost. But that experience, I'll never forget that night giving birth and you know, just feeling absolutely traumatised by it. And my partner was there. I didn't want him to touch me, but he just sat on the floor all night. And I just knew he was there. And I just felt like I was dying, to be honest. I just felt so awful. I was being sick. And you know. So yeah, and then that, that's when the baby was lost. It was the 28th of December, by that point. Um, and we just, we were all in shock, really, we just didn't really know what to do. So we went to hospital the next day and I had a scan and I just remember them saying, there's nothing there. Just those words. And it was just very, the nurse did hold my hand at one point, but it was just very matter of fact, and, you know, in a strange hospital, in a different town, kind of just after Christmas thinking, can't believe this has happened, you know, just to go from like, absolute hope to nothing. And just feeling completely empty within a few days. Just feeling slightly shame, shameful about it as well. So, yeah, but, but we went and bought a rose plant. And we, we, we had our own little ritual when we got home. We buried the baby in the rose plant, which, obviously we still have. So yeah, that was, that was how it happened. And then the aftermath was taking some time out, really. Took a month away from work. And I just talked about it to a lot of, you know, just people I'd bump into at preschool, and so many of them just turned around and said, oh, yeah, me too.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
That was the thing that I found so shocking, was that it's not mentioned and I had no idea that these people who I considered friends had been through it as well. But that really helped me. And just, you know, lots of dancing. I'd listen to T-Rex Cosmic Dancer. Do you know it? The lyrics are just, yeah, I danced myself out of the womb.
Speaker 1
Yes, that's the one.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And over and over, it just became this kind of obsession. That really, really helped. Crying, the grieving process. Yeah, I think it's really complex because you don't, you think, you know, it was, it was very early, 12 weeks, but you don't feel you have permission to feel so utterly devastated. And grieve because it's unnamed, isn't it? You know, if you can't name something, how can you grieve? So, yeah, that's my, that's my experience. However, you know, we were incredibly lucky, blessed to have a second pregnancy, a third pregnancy, kind of three months afterwards, or four months afterwards. Sorry. Yeah, four and a half months afterwards. And that the thing that was really interesting was that the due date was the 28th of December.
Speaker 1
Really?
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know. And he wasn't born until the fifth of January. So he held on. You know, which I thought was quite poignant. Yeah, but that was a completely different experience. And that did help me a lot. You know, having, having, being able to have my special, you know, Rainbow baby are the words, but that really helped with the healing, but it was really difficult, every second of that pregnancy. You're just waiting for something to go wrong. You know, and fortunately, he, you know, he was delivered, healthily. So, yeah, but we'll never forget what, what we went through.
Speaker 1
Listen, I'm, I'm so sorry for your loss.
Speaker 2
Thank you.
Speaker 1
Um, I have a question about what the emotional challenges you faced as a result of what you've been through. So I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2
I mean, the natural kind of, I suppose that the natural grieving process is that you think you're okay, and then suddenly, you're not. You know, something will just floor you. I just remember, I got a letter from my granddad again, you know, and just sort of saying, that he was sorry, and just being on the floor, like literally on the kitchen floor. And then I remember being stuck in my office at work. Just, just crying, just couldn't stop. I've never experienced anything like that, that just kind of complete lack of control of my emotions. And then I think I talked about it a lot. And that, that really helps. But I think it has an impact on your relationship with, for us it you know, with we deal with things differently. You know, with my husband. We didn't, found that, we found, I found that hard was the different ways of processing that. And I think it's still there actually, to be honest, I think from when we talk about it, now it is still, it gets to you. It's quite raw. I think I felt quite angry as well. Like an anger that I've not experienced. And I think that comes from just feeling completely out of control. And quite dark emotions, you know, jealousy. It's real, isn't it? Yeah, so, I don't know. I didn't see a counselor. I was offered that but I kind of because I'd talked about it so much. I think my mum found it quite difficult because she experienced it as well. She was there. We actually had a big sort of, very strange argument afterwards, which came out of the blue. And I think we were all kind of, just in shock, and the trauma of it happening in their house was, was quite difficult. And fortunate in a way because they were able to look after my elder, my son, my eldest son and you know, protect him from it. But he'd talked about it as well. The baby that died and yeah, but yeah, so I don't know if that answers your question but...
Speaker 1
Um, yeah, it does answer, answer it. And earlier you also mentioned, you mentioned a couple of other emotions that, you mentioned shame around experiencing the miscarriage and, and also a guilt as well as though that you'd done something wrong? I just wondered if you could say a bit more about that.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, that's, that was my absolute kind of first reaction is what have I done wrong? Was it when I carried the bags upstairs? Have I been working too hard? To be honest, I do remember my little one, he'd fallen on my knee quite heavily when we were kind of play, you know, playing in place of wrestling as you do, and you immediately running over all those things that I've done something wrong. But also that you're not really good enough. You know, I think that's a big one for me. It's so, I think it's so tied up in how you, your identity, it can be your identity as a woman as well, you know, is being able to conceive and carry a baby. And if you can't do that, you just, just felt like a complete failure. Yeah, which is ridiculous. But you know, absolutely ridiculous. But that, yeah, just still now, you know, I still sometimes think oh, what, and that, what did I do wrong? And I carried that into the second pregnancy, is thinking, well, what can I, what, what, what should I, you know, I need to kind of, almost felt like I was physically wrapping myself and bubble wrap, you know, just wanted to just protect so much because I thought that anything I did might, might have an impact. It's very strange. Yeah, so.
Speaker 1
So, how do you feel about the experience now? Because I'm just trying to sort of calculate the dates working back to, are you know two or three years?
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
So, coming up to another Christmas.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I've, I've created some little rituals for myself. So I know they were due to be born the 27th of July and I always mark that. And then I always like to think of, you know, I've got the rose plant, it's by, it's in the garden, it's next to the sandpit where the children play. So that's like, I like that's lovely, you know, we've got painted rocks that we've we put on. So for me, obviously, you know, I'm so kind of busy with the youngest, my second, my third, third child, you know, that I, I, it's hard to allow time, really, you know, just swept up in that and feeling so grateful. And that's the thing is, you know, when you have that you're grateful that you've got, you've been able to have another child that you don't feel that you've got that right to feel, it's again, it's that permission, isn't it? That right to grieve, and to feel sad, because you've got, you know, what you want, but, but it's still there, you know, and I think that's had an impact on my experience with him. Not postnatal depression. I've described it as a postnatal rage. And I think a lot of that comes from exhaustion, but you, you get quite angry and you get, you feel bad for feeling down because you feel like you should feel incredibly grateful. And, you know, so that's actually that's hard, actually, is giving yourself permission to be down or to be sad. You know, so it does, it absolutely got easier with time, you know, and I've talked about it so much, and I've connected with the miscarriage association and I follow you know, any sort of stories, and I read them, and, you know, it makes me cry every time. But I think for me that helps to just allow myself to cry and I light a candle at miscarriage, you know, when they have the wave of light. And, you know, I've got a little, don't know if I want to use the word trying, but in, you know, I've created a space where I, I was quite important to me, I got, a my friend sent me a, I'm not into this at all, but a crystal, like a stone, which was lovely. I don't think she knew what to do. But she just posted me the stone and she said, oh, my step mother in law was into heat crystals and this is for healing. So I just held it in my pocket for months afterwards and I'd just hold on to it whenever I was feeling sad. And so I've got, and then I bought a candle, and a wooden pot. And I've kind of almost created our own little... We had a funeral, I suppose, where we went to an old burial mound, in the Shropshire hills. And it was just a really cold January day. And we just said, so we wrote down, I wrote down some things that I wanted to say, and I got my husband to say, you know, because I wanted him to try and find ways to get him to process something. So he said, Bilbo's last song.
Speaker 1
I don't know it, but I'm going to read it after this.
Speaker 2
Which you know, and then I kind of wrote that down, and I put it in this wooden pot and put it on my dressing table. And it's almost like a little shrine, I've got a little tray that someone gave me in Japan, and this wooden pot, and my candle and my stone. That's just there. And so I often go to it and light the candle, and yeah, it's, I think for me, that's important to have that. Yeah. To remember. I think like having my third son, I'm often looking at him in thinking, oh, well, you know, you wouldn't exist. It's a really strange feeling. But also, I've got a friend who had a child who was born when mine would have been born, and looking at them and thinking that's how you would be now. Just very strange. So, yeah. It's hard. It's just hard, isn't it? You know, and it surprises you. You might see, I don't know, someone might share a picture of a scan, and that's hard. Yeah, you kind of go, oh, gosh, you know, I'm so happy for you, but that's the stage that, that mine, you know, but it was a missed miscarriage as well. So I find that quite hard as well, is not knowing at what point, and I often relive that period building up to it thinking when did you... When did your heart stop beating? And why didn't I know? Because I'm your mother. You know, do you know what I mean, it's like, yeah, just think about that. It's really sad. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Is there anything else about your experience that you'd like to share?
Speaker 2
Um, I think, I just, I just think it's so important to talk about it. And that's, that's, that's the thing. Is, is it is, it matters and you know, they, for me, that's my second, will always be my second child. And it, you know, you get through it, you do get through it. And I'm just ingreally lucky I had a lot of support in different ways. You know, my friend give me my stone. Another friend just sent me a book. Maggie O'Farrell's, I am, I am, I am.
Speaker 1
Okay. I haven't read it, I will read that too.
Speaker 2
Yes, it's like, I think 17 encounters, is it 17? It's different encounters with death. And one of them is her experience of miscarriage. And reading that was really powerful for me, because it described my experience, you know, so well. So I found as I am writing and talking and dancing and crying, and just allowing myself that, that was really important. That really weirdly, that sometimes feels really self indulgent. Just, you know, it's wrong, isn't it? That you shouldn't feel like that?
Speaker 1
Well, I'm sure that is some, that messaging that we've had that taking up space and talking about what's going on with us, is the whole reason why nobody's talking about this.
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think, I think that's yeah, that, that's, that's my experience. And I think part of the reason why it was so hard is because it isn't talked about and, and the way and it's the same with, with often with childbirth as well, is that things that are really difficult, you know, like no one told me how flipping painful breastfeeding would be, or how much you bleed after having a baby, you know, these things that my sister told me, that it's the same with miscarriage. I don't know, if I'd known that I would be misscarrying a baby on my own in my brother's bedroom in agony, I'd be so shocked, because I had no notion that it will be so incredibly painful and hard, from a physical point of view.
Speaker 1
Absolutely. And I think, even in your kind of, you know, in the interactions with medical staff, it sounds from what you were describing earlier that you know, you just need to go home and let the... Nobody's saying to you at that point, this is going to be a really painful experience so you need to prepare for this. And, there's a complete lack of information about what you're about to go through.
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, you're so right. Like, the fact that I was there, and I was with the GP. And, you know, the chances were that it might have happened. But just tell me, you know, just you know, this is my body, I want to know, this is my baby, tell me what might happen. Yeah, it's really hard. And then having to go into that environment where, you know, I remember when we were waiting for the scan. I was waiting in a waiting room with pregnant women. And a woman came in and I remember so clearly, and she's, she was clutching a scan picture, and she was expecting twins. And, you know, she was at the same stage that I was, and I just, I'll never forget that. So just, just that, that absolute contrast. Yeah. And just that time of year as well, it was just so bleak and cold. And yeah. So.
Speaker 1
It's interesting you mentioned that I mean, the coldness, because that was a really, for me, that was something that was so significant, and both my losses happened around December, January. And the, exactly as you're describing this kind of utterly bleak kind of time of year, and physically, and I don't know if this was a result of the losses, but like, I was like, I just couldn't ever get warm. It was freezing. Just like so cold.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. Everything about it. Cold. Yeah, my memories are all tinged, walking around the garden centre trying to find the rose. Post Christmas. It's a hard time anyway. And just, just, just freezing and going to the burial mound, and just absolutely freezing. Yeah, there's a sort of, yeah, that kind of emptiness, literally emptiness, isn't it?
Speaker 1
Um, so is there anything else you'd like to say?
Speaker 2
No, no.
Speaker 1
Thank you so much for talking to me so candidly, it's really useful. I find, I'm personally finding this whole experience incredibly useful and I really hope that other people listening to this will either feel less alone because they're recognising their own experience or that they're, can gain an understanding of what what it means to have, have a miscarriage.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 1
So I'm going to pause the recording now.