Valentino's story
Speaker 1
So, can you tell me what your life circumstances were when you found out that you were pregnant?
Speaker 2
Um, I had already another child, and, a boy, and we didn't expect, we didn't expect the second pregnancy, but we were very happy when we found out. And we were a bit with this one, we thought, oh, how we're gonna handle all of this, you know? And so there were maybe less than two years of, of difference between the two children. So we were like, okay, how are we going to handle two children so close to each other? And finally, and we were like, okay, then probably it is going to be alright, and we are, we were actually quite excited about it. And yeah, everything went well. But I had some, also some kind of issues with anemia and other problems, like this. And so they were a bit concerned. And I was a bit concerned for the baby. But in the end, the doctor, the doctors reassured us saying that everything was fine and the baby was, looked fine. So we try not to be too, too much concerned and we just kept on going. Till, till it was the 20th week scan and then we had an ultrasound and we were kind of, yeah, we were trying to figure out, oh, is it going be a boy, is it going to be a girl. We were just thinking about the sex of the baby. My youngest son, well, my oldest son, sorry, was still, was also there. And then I saw, yeah, the, the personnel there were a bit concerned, they were looking at the picture and like saying, oh there's something I cannot see, maybe I have to ask someone more expert to have a look. And I was okay, but it's going to be fine, I'm sure. And then, yeah, they told us that the baby had a heart problem, and I was a bit in shock. I just thought, for sure, it's something that we can solve, there's nothing... There's nothing wrong with my baby, you know? And if he has some problem, we're going to fix it, and everything's going to be fine. But they didn't tell us exactly what kind of problem it was. And they just said that probably, it was a problem that required some surgery and we were like, okay, that's something we can handle. And they say, okay, we, you need to take another appointment in the next days and talk to an expert and head surgeon and basically the head of the prenatal diagnostics. And so we did after a few days, they checked everything, they were talking, you know, they were using some very technical terms, so we couldn't follow what they were saying. And then all of a sudden, they told us about his heart problem, and it was more severe than we, we thought. Actually he had several heart problems. He had, um, interruption of the aortic, aorta, basically. And then some other problems and we were like, okay, and can it be fixed? And, yeah, of course it can be, there's a surgery that can be done once the baby's born but he actually needs probably a couple of surgeries. And since you have to interrupt the blood flow to the brain it can cause nerve damage. And also, this kind of problem is always going to, it's often connected to a syndrome, this called the DiGeorge syndrome that is a very complex one, and is one of them second common genetic disease you can find in babies. And so basically, we were like, yeah, we couldn't believe what we were hearing, it was, was heartbreaking. And we were still not sure about DiGeorge syndrome. So we had, we had to run some, some tests and wait for a couple of weeks, that was during Christmas time. And we spent two weeks thinking about all the options, and we talk to surgeons, also in Italy, in the Netherlands, we talk to other people that were more, let's say, expert in genetic diseases, just to understand what we could expect from this. And everybody was saying that basically, the two problems combined were, were a bit tough. They're a bit kind of too much. For, for him to have a normal life too. We couldn't expect him to have a normal life, he could probably have severe brain damage. So in the end, also the head of the prenatal diagnostics that worked in the hospital in the Netherlands, in Amsterdam, and she's also Italian. And she, she, she kind of told us very clearly, look, if I were you, I would not keep this baby. But I know it's, it's really tough for me to say that because it's your decision, but it's really, it's going to be very hard for him. And so we thought and, again, and in the end, we, we decide to, for a medical abortion. But it was a very, very hard decision to take. And yeah, the process was basically I had to go to take this, the abortion pill basically and just to stop the support to, to the baby. His name is Valentina, by the way. And I was super scared. And I remember that there was one night in particular, when, exactly the day before going to the hospital, I felt the baby in frantic motion, it was super agitated. And I was, I felt so bad. I felt like I was let him down, letting him down like I wasn't protecting him. Or maybe I was but like I was choosing the, the easiest option. But in the end, yeah. I don't know, it was super confusing for me, was like, on one hand, I would have kept him and just took care of him, taken care of him, like no matter what. But then, when I was thinking about what kind of life he could have, I couldn't. I couldn't. Yeah, I couldn't give him that, I couldn't... It was not the right thing to do. So, I don't know, I was super confused about it. But at the same time, I thought that was the best decision I could take. On the other hand, I didn't want him to suffer. And when I was at the hospital, I remember, I was super scared and they, and I cried and I said I'm super scared, I'm super scared. And then, and luckily the day before, I had the support of a doula who helped, who helped me to prepare for, for what was coming. So, I decided to give birth naturally without any painkillers, it was to experience also this phase together with him. And I, I remember the pain, of course, because of the induction it was very intense and painful, but this, and I, and I was under the shower trying to, you know, deal with the pain and I was singing him a lullaby and crying. And then I was holding a selenite crystal that is supposed to keep the communication with the, with the, with the soul of the baby. And my water broke and the, the gemstone broke too. Yeah. And after a few minutes, he was born. And he was in a sleeping position, like his head on, on his cheek. And I held him and I was crying and I was sad and happy at the same time. I, I held him. And I kept him close to me. And, and I, I think I stayed there with him for I think at least an hour. And then basically they told us what the different options would be. And they said, if you want you can also keep him with you at home. And I said, okay, but how. So basically, they said there is this method to basically put him in cold water, and to preserve him for days. And so for us it was a way to take care of him, so we would, put him in water and look at him and then take him up again to change the water and hold him and we would talk to him. And, and, and it was beautiful for a few days. Because we, we had the possibility to take care of him. Of course, at one point we had the cremation scheduled. And that was the hardest part. Just say goodbye. For good. I remember the lady saying I will take, I will take good care of him. And I, and I thought to myself, you can't, you can't. And so, what was that? It was hushes. And unfortunately, I couldn't hold them anymore. It was the hardest part, it felt like I was a mother for the second time and I didn't have my son. It felt like against nature. And I remember the first day at home after the delivery, my oldest son started to walk for the first time. Yeah. There were many bittersweet moments there. And for a while, after the cremation, I felt like there was still his presence there. I didn't expect that. But it felt like he was still there for a few days. And he was really upset. I don't know how to explain it but I, my oldest son was, was talking to, it looked like he was talking to someone. And, and he kept on, he was not talking yet, but he made some sounds that sound like Valentino. And he couldn't sleep and he talked in his room alone. And I was like, and we would just ask him questions, and he would just say like, are you talking to someone? And he would say yes. Like really sad. And I don't know, if my son really have contact with the living but it felt like he was still there for a few days again, and very upset about what happened. And I tried to talk to him and encourage him to just be at peace. And then at one point again, have any signs of him at all, until one night when I still dreamt of him. And in the dream, I was holding his hands while he was walking in the water. And that was it. And to this day, I try not to, sometimes I, I force myself not to think of him because I don't want to deal with the pain. But he still there, he's always there. In my thoughts, in my heart, he's my second son. And will always be. The beginning I was, I would not tell anyone about him, like it was my secret. But it felt not right, because I didn't want to get any questions. But, but now every time I, someone asked me how many children do you have, I always say three. But I miss him so much. And I would have given everything to just, to get to know him. Even as a mother, we probably, I don't know, I felt, I feel like we have some instincts about our children's character, even before they are born, like we, we know them already.
Speaker 1
What would you say are the emotional challenges that you have faced as a result of your experience with Valentino?
Speaker 2
Any emotional challenges is, when you are, when you lose a baby I think the first thing is you got, you get a kind of trauma. So you have to deal with the trauma and with the memories that are haunting you. And, and also deal with the fact that you can, you have to go on living without him. And I have to tell the truth, I, I think that having another son really helped me, to give me the strength to, to just go on. But you get depressed, at least I got depressed and it was really hard for me to just think about going on and living a normal life and at the beginning I thought, I don't know if I can do this and I don't know how can I deal with this pain? I think the first thing I did is to reach out to other people who lost their children during the pregnancy and talking to some people helped me to just feel less alone. And they told me, everybody told me that in time, I will not forget him, the pain will, will always, they said the pain will always be there but you, you will learn how to deal with it. So for me at the time it felt like impossible but it's true. Yeah, with time you, you learn to deal with it. It's still very painful and sometimes you realise there's, um, that inside you there is still an irrational hope to hold him again. And you know it's not possible but probably is the only thing that keeps us going. Yeah.
Speaker 1
How long ago was it that you lost Valentino?
Speaker 2
I lost him in the 30th December in 2017. I think especially the first year was very hard. And then yeah, in time it gets better you, you start living again. It's you know, yeah, still really hard. And what really helped me I guess, is at one point I really needed to do something and I decide to try EMDR.
Speaker 1
What's that?
Speaker 2
That is basically a therapist, some therapists use this technique to basically move the trauma from, so the, they have, this technique helps with trauma and so the memory that feel always present in the trauma, the memories are triggered. Everyday day like it was like they were in the present. And using this technique, they help memories to basically, to elaborate and to process the memories so that they, they're not so threatening anymore. And really, this really helped me. Yeah, I'm, I think it helps also to, it doesn't make you forget things or feel less pain, it's still painful, but you can look at the past and, and not get breathless, you know, and yeah. It's very hard to explain. But yeah, it helps you to get going basically.
Speaker 1
So how do you feel about the experience now?
Speaker 2
I think, you know, what I really liked or I'm happy about in this situation is that I followed the advice and the guidance of the personnel of the hospital, they really... I was really scared about having memories of Valentino, and I was really scared to spend time with Valentino because I didn't know what to expect. I thought that the pain could be too much for me, but actually having memories of him like pictures and, and his hand and foot prints is, is everything I have, and it's really important for me to, to have contact with him and, and have something to hold on to. So I'm really glad they helped me dealing with this and helped me, yeah, making good decision for myself, I guess. And for of course, for my partner. And yeah, the experience itself is always very hard. And my, I think I lived it in the best possible way. Because I, it was super intense. But I, I experienced the birth, I, I, I held him as long as I could. And that's the best I could do. That's the only thing I could do. Even if, it doesn't take it back, but at least I have something of him.
Speaker 1
Is there anything else that you'd like to share about your experience?
Speaker 2
I think, it's, losing a, losing a baby is very, very difficult. And I think only mothers who went through that really understands, understand what it means and what the experience is. Many people would comment on, on this and they were sometimes insensitive. And I, and I think they do that because they, you know, they are afraid. It's too much for them too. And they don't want to deal with this because, and what I want to say is that I know they mean well when they say some things and, and that's the best they can do. And so at the beginning I was angry at many people for saying some things like oh, you will have another son or, or it was not a baby yet. You know, all these kind of things. They were really hurtful to me but I know they came, they came from ignorance. And so that's why I think it's really important to reach out to other people went through this because they, they can understand and, and you feel less lonely. Even, even though we are a bit lonely in our pain, it is something very personal and sometimes it gives you and I know again, a very bad and irrational feeling of envy against like, all the people didn't experience that, because, of course you're happy for everybody's happiness, you know if they're, if you hear a friend having a baby and a healthy baby and you're happy for, for, for, for a friend, for the friend. But still, there's a part of you who says, why, why did I have to experience that? And I think it's so normal, it's just a faze. You have to go get through this and, and yeah, that's why it also made me question, you know, my ability as a birth giver, you know, like, I'm not, I'm not able to do a healthy child, or to you know, deliver healthy children like, but it's not true of course, it's just what happens. It happens. I was trying to find reasons for this, everybody was saying, well surely, it's because you, you are a bit older so that happens often, you know, or maybe because of pollution or other stuff, you know. But doctors say there's no reason actually, it just happens. And that's the hardest part to deal with. There is no necessary reason for that. It's so, so in a way, the fact that there's no reason and that just happened, I'd ask you to be kinder towards yourself, that you didn't cause this to happen, you're not responsible for this. But on the other hand, yeah, it's just hard because we need reasons, we need, we need need to know why things happen. That's how we work. Yeah. Basically, that's my experience.
Speaker 1
Thank you for sharing all of that with me. I'm really sorry for everything you've been through. Thank you. And how old is your baby now?
Speaker 2
My, my youngest, the third, is almost 11 months, is 10 and something and is um, yeah, I um, I knew it couldn't replace and it shouldn't even replace anyone. It's just, it just they're not, it's not Valentino you know, is not. But in, on one hand this like, there are many things to say about that, but it's you know, they say every child shares the DNA of the previous one. So, I, somehow I keep on thinking there is a part in me of Valentino there is also a part of him in Leonardo too, my third child. So that makes me happy. And, and then of course, Leonardo is just Leonardo. But it's like, yeah, and it, also having a child, another baby after Valentino helped me to, to feel a bit complete again. It was like I really needed to be a mother for another baby somehow. And, yeah, Leonardo is super sweet and stubborn as well. He can be very patient, but at the same time when he has something in his mind, there's no way to make him change his mind
Speaker 1
Did you, I'm asking this because I have heard this from some other women that I've spoken to that, how, did you have any anxiety around when you fell pregnant with Leonardo as a result of what you'd been through with Valentino?
Speaker 2
Yeah, I was very anxious. In fact I would say the pregnancy was not a very nice experience, this third pregnancy was not a nice experience. I mean, everything went fine and I was, I had the support from the hospital, I had regular ultrasound until I was 20 weeks pregnant and then of course after the 20th week scan then I was, I felt relieved in a way but still I was afraid of all the other possible problems, like viruses or infections, whatever, and I kept on asking to be checked, to having some checkups and just to make sure that everything was okay. And, and still I really couldn't, I was waiting for it to just, seeing him with my own eyes and seeing that he was okay. And well maybe it's, maybe it's even worse, it was that despite, even though Samwell, my first son was born exactly on his due date, actually two days later, Leonardo me wait so long. So I was almost 42 weeks. Yeah, so I was really anxious, like saying I want to meet you please. I cannot wait any longer and one point I think around 41 weeks, plus five days, I decide to, after some other things we tried, we decide to break the membrane and have a home birth. And, and as soon as they broke my membrane, he was born in one hour and a half. And, and when I saw him it was funny because he cried and I cried, we were crying from, I was crying from the from the relief and joy and I was so like exhausted of this waiting and still you know, you think after you see him then it's fine, you know, and you will see that he is healthy and, and well, and it's fine. But even the next, the following days, I was anxious. Like when he was sleeping I was making sure he was okay. It was really, something just, yeah, of course it affects the way you, you see things, you see dangers everywhere. It's like you don't take for granted anything anymore. Just this happens also with my oldest son and just always hoping that everything is, is fine with him but I'm always like protective and a bit anxious. So and, and again you envy probably the people who just live without this concern, constant concern about everything. Of course I'm trying to, to deal with it and trying to be, to be aware of that but sometimes it's hard.
Speaker 1
I don't have any more questions to ask you, unless there's anything else you'd like to say?
Speaker 2
I think I said more or less everything. We, the only thing about Valentino is we, aside from the wave of light, we decide, we decide to celebrate his birthday every year. Maybe not in the way that we would celebrate a normal birthday, some do. But we, we gather and we, we light a candle again, we look at the pictures, maybe we, some, well, maybe one year ago, I wrote a poem for him. And now I read this poem to him every, every time and on his birthday. And we talk to him, we pray, everything that makes us feel better. Of course, you can do all this also in any, any time of the year. But this is a special occasion, so for, for all of us to just gather and think of him. And it really helps us and unfortunately, I have to say that Christmas time is not so, not so, such a cheerful event anymore. It's really hard for us to celebrate. We try, of course for our, for our children. But yeah. It's not a happy moment anymore. That's what it is.
Speaker 1
Thank you very much for talking to me.
Speaker 2
You're very welcome. And I'm really happy to share this story because I think it's a very nice of you to think of this project, I think it's a very good idea. And also, yeah, a way for mothers to not feel less lonely again. And mothers and of course parents in general, also fathers.
Speaker 1
So I'm gonna stop recording us now.
Speaker 2
Yeah.