The Bobbins
Speaker 1
Okay. So can you tell me what your life circumstances were when you found out that you were pregnant with this pregnancy?
Speaker 2
Yes, so I had a baby. He was just over a year old when I found that I was expecting again. And we were really excited. So we'd gone from being, having no children, having our first baby and not knowing what to expect. And she opened up a whole world of wonderful for us. And so when we found out that we were pregnant again, we were just, we were so excited and happy to be having her, there was a, them, there was trepidation as well, because we had such a young baby. But generally, we were just so excited to go through the journey again to give Evie a sibling and to open up a whole new world again.
Speaker 1
So Well, so my next question was going to be how do you, how did you feel about the pregnancy? But I think you've kind of answered that really.
Speaker 2
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1
And so then, how did you find out that there was a problem with that pregnancy?
Speaker 2
So I think I knew very early on from the beginning, that there was something wrong. And I was very, very excited. But I also had this overwhelming sensation that there was just, there was something very, very wrong. My mum, especially I would talk to her about it a lot. And I'd say to her, I'm really worried that I'm going to go to a scan, and they're going to say you've imagined it, and it's not real. So I took hundreds of tests, to the point where my husband thought that I had a problem, I took so many tests just to confirm. And there was no sign, there was, it was, there was no symptoms to say that there was anything going wrong, there was no feeling physically, it was just very much for me, feeling like it was something that I so desperately wanted, but I just had this feeling that it was something that was never going to actually happen. And so it was just a very, very overwhelming feeling. But I spoke to somebody who had lost a baby before who, who recognised that and that's why I actually was sent into the hospital to just go and get checked over at the early pregnancy unit.
Speaker 1
And is that when you found out there was something wrong, or was it okay at that stage?
Speaker 2
No. So I went into the, I went to a&e to be referred to the early pregnancy unit, and they did another test there. And they did a blood test and everything there was fine. So they sent me home for three more days to wait for my appointment. And it was then that I went into the EPU and that's when they told me, they scanned me and they saw that the pregnancy hadn't progressed since eight weeks. But I was 12 weeks at that point. So I was just shy of going in for my scan. I was meant to go, I went in on the Sunday for the early pregnancy unit appointment and my 12 week scan was the following Tuesday, I think it was two days short of that. That's when, that's when I found out, although I was glad that it happens at the early pregnancy unit on my own rather than at an appointment with lots and lots of couples in a waiting room.
Speaker 1
So was your partner with you at that appointment or was it just you?
Speaker 2
He was, he came in with me because I just had this overwhelming feeling, I was the only person that had this feeling. So I was always telling people they were saying when the baby comes, it's like if the baby comes. And I was always managing his expectations. So he came along and, and I think we had both managed to convince ourselves that maybe I was just being paranoid. And so I felt at the time a little bit guilty that we were wasting their time and their resources and taking away from somebody who did need to go in at that point. And so yes, he was there with us. With me.
Speaker 1
So then, that must have been really hard to hear that news?
Speaker 2
It was, I mean, I was relieved to, to know that I wasn't going mad because I had driven myself half, half demented thinking about it. So I was glad to have it confirmed that it wasn't just something that was in my head. But it was, yeah, it was really hard news to process and to hear. It was almost like an out of body experience.
Speaker 1
So then, what happened next with the pregnancy?
Speaker 2
And so I was scanned and the midwife went and got a second opinion. And then they came in and said that I'd lost the baby. And then she said it's a twin pregnancy. And so there was that, they had to check the second baby to make sure that the first wasn't just, there was, there was still a chance that one of the babies could have been okay, so they had to check. And it wasn't. So the next thing we had to do was discuss our options. And they gave me three options, which was number one to go home and watch and wait, and which was the least intervention at the time. The second was medical management, which would have to be done in hospital because it was twins. So there's more that could go wrong with that. And then the third was a D&C. And I, in hindsight, should have gone probably for the D&C, because it was the quickest, it was the most final, it would have got it all over and done with. However, when they present it to you, the least intrusive, the one that's going to do the least damage is to go home and let your body do, deal with it naturally. So that's what I attempted to do for the next two weeks. Yeah. But it got to the point, I phoned them at two in the morning after two weeks and said, look, I can't function, I'm not present, I just, I need to do something. So we moved on to medical management. Me and my husband were admitted to hospital, which was a strange experience in itself, because I was on a ward with women with a whole range of gynecological problems. And the lady next to me, there was a very young girl who was there because she'd got, well she didn't know what she got. It turned out she was very far along in a pregnancy that she wasn't aware that she had. So there was a lot of things going on around me, which was quite, it was quite hard to, my husband had a really hard time dealing with it, because we were there desperately wanting our babies. And then there was a girl next to us who absolutely had no idea. But when she came out of her scan, she was so happy. She was elated. And I just said to him look that, you know, that baby might turn her life around, and maybe, you know, maybe we were supposed to see that. I don't know. But um, so we went in, and they moved me to a side room, thankfully. So I didn't have to go, I point blank refused to go through what I had to go through on the ward. And I'm really glad that I did. So glad that I did that.
Speaker 1
Was that even an option, that they were going to...?
Speaker 2
Yes, yeah. And it was horrible. I mean, it was, it was a good, good and bad, because there were people on that ward who had terrible problems that were, that make mine pale into insignificance, I think. They were ladies who were very, very unwell. So it was eye opening, but at the same time, it was such an awful thing to be going through personally that I didn't want them to witness it. And thankfully, they didn't. Because I had the, they induced labor for me. But for some reason, the, I passed the babies like the babies came, but nothing, nothing else did. And everything else just got retained, I think is a medical term. And I hemorrhaged because of that. So from then they sent me home. The next morning, they think, they thought that everything had completed because the amount of bleeding and I said to them at the time, there was a lot of bleeding last night, but since they intervened, there was nothing and that concerns me because I didn't feel like, like everything had come away. Um, and it hadn't. But they sent me home, when they scanned me I was just at the threshold of where they would keep you in or send you home and they decided to send me home. And which again, I wished that I hadn't let them do. Because then, from then on I had to keep going back. My pregnancy tests always showed us positive 2, 3, 4 months down the line, I was still having positive tests. I was still suffering morning sickness, my body still felt pregnant. So it was progressing just without actually being pregnant. So then I went back in and I had all kinds of procedures. I had a manual aspiration. And by the nurse, she did that three times. And then I had a hysteroscopy with a consultant who went in and tried to remove things. I had two of those and they didn't work. So in the end, after having the full suite, I ended up going in for a D&C anyway. Yeah, it was very eye opening. I feel, I feel like I'm an expert in that area, altough I never wanted to be.
Speaker 1
Oh, wow, I'm so sorry. So I mean, I mean physically, that sounds really harrowing. But how, what were the emotional challenges you experienced as a result of, well, all of that, and the loss that you were going through?
Speaker 2
Obviously, it was very conflicting for me because on the one hand, I had this little, like voice in my head saying, I have Evie, I have a little girl at home, and I have to be there for her. And I'm so lucky. And at least when I leave the hospital from these appointments, I'm going home to my, my baby. And some people don't have that. And some people might never have that. And, you know, I'm very, very lucky. But then on the other hand, I've been through this traumatic experience, because it was traumatic, some of the things even just what I'd seen was, was traumatic enough, and then dealing with the emotion of the fact that I'd lost these babies. And I, obviously, from the minute that I found out, I was pregnant, I'd planned their lives with me and their childhood, and all the things we were going to do and our family holidays and things like that suddenly went away. And that was very difficult, and even more, so on top of that ,was it felt like every single other female member of my family were pregnant at the time, my sister in law, my sister, my auntie, my cousin, they were all pregnant at the same time. So it was ongoing. When my nieces reach certain milestones. It's like, well, mine could have been there. So it's very, very conflicting, way to fail. I mean, I was very comforted by the fact that I had my little girl at home. But then, a nurse once said to me, one of the midwives turned around to me one day when I said that to her, and I was having the, the midwives were incredible. And there was one particular lady who just looked after me the entire, the whole time lasted a year, and she was amazing. And I was having a bit of a breakdown for her. And she said to me, You must remember that just because you've got something positive at home doesn't mean that you can't feel for the babies that you've lost. And I think it was really important. And when she said that to me, it sort of it validated how I was feeling almost. It made it okay for me sometimes to feel sad, even though to somebody who doesn't have a child, they'd be looking at me thinking, well, at leasnt you've got that, it made me feel a bit more validated.
Speaker 1
Gosh, what a massive ordeal. So it lasted a year? And how, how do you feel about the experience now? How long ago was it? And how do you feel about it now?
Speaker 2
So it happened in 2016, so it's four years ago now. Which you've, you know, it sounds like it's a long way away, a lot has happened since then. But I still struggle with it. From time to time, I don't think. People tell you that, as you, as you move further away from it, it'll get easier and you'll think about it less. And I suppose in a way you do. You don't think, it doesn't consume your every minute like it did back four years ago when it was very fresh. But there aren't many days when I don't think about it or think about what life would have been like had they, had they come to be. And I'm grateful for the experience in as much as it's taught me a lot about me. And it's taught me that I can be a lot stronger than I ever thought I would be or have, ever have to be. But at the same time, I'm, I'm not grateful that it happened. Um, and, yeah, it's hard to think back on positively. Even though I think that's what people who, who care about you want for you more than anything else. They want you to be able to see it positively. They want you to be able to say well, you know, things happen for a reason, but I struggle myself to feel it, feel that there was a good enough reason to have had to have gone through all of that.
Speaker 1
And how do you feel about it now?
Speaker 2
Now, so now I have a 10 month old little boy called Milo and although Milo can't take the place of the twins, um, and he doesn't and that's not what he was, that's not why we have him, that's not his job. Um, there is part of me that thinks, well, you know, if that hadn't happened, potentially we wouldn't have met Milo, and or had the opportunity to have Milo, and I wouldn't change anything, because it's led me to him. And I wouldn't change anything about having him. So I'm a bit more at peace with it now. Even though I try very, very hard not to pair the two, Milo and the babies, the twins have nothing to do with each other, at all. Um, but I feel a little bit more at peace with it. Um, and one of the things that I found is from the very beginning, I lost the twins. I'm part of a drama group, and I was rehearsing for a show when I lost the twins, and I didn't want to tell anyone. It was, it was Joseph and his Technicolour Dreamcoat. I was the narrator. So it's a very upbeat, very happy show. And I just didn't want to bring everybody down. And so I just didn't talk about it for quite some time. But I think I changed as well, I think that, carrying something like that, that you can't talk about, I think it really affected me. Um, and then I opened up to someone at my drama group and they turned around to meand said, oh, I've been through that similar experience. So this is at the very beginning. And then I talked to somebody else, and they'd been through it. And the amount of people that I spoke to who then said, oh, I know somebody who's been through that, or I've been through that, and they've just never talked about any, about it before. I feel having that experience has led me to having conversations with people such as yourself that I would probably never ever have had before. And I think there's, you'll feel closer to people who you might not have before. And I am very grateful for that as well. I'm very grateful that I've got something that I can share that, that can help somebody who is struggling right now. So as well as feeling still sad at times and down about it, I also feel a little bit empowered by what I've been through and a little bit. I know my own body very well, I trust my own intuitions so strongly now. And so without that experience, there's a lot that I wouldn't have known about myself probably and other people.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I just wanted to ask about when you found out that you were pregnant with Milo. Did any, did you have any anxiety around that pregnancy, given what you'd gone through?
Speaker 2
Huge, absolutely huge amounts of anxiety. Again, with Milo, people would talk about when the baby comes, and it would be huge "if". And I found out I was pregnant, and that was the first, finding out that you're pregnant and having that confirmed that was the first milestone that I thought, well, once that's happened, then I'll feel better. I bled, I had a lot of bleeding with Milo, so I thought it was happening again. And so I had scans from very early on and quite regularly throughout. So when I reached my 15 week scan that they did privately for me, and I found out that we were having a boy, I thought okay, well I can relax now. And then I didn't and I thought well, maybe the 20 week scan, I'll get to the 20 week scan and I'll relax. Um, but there was just part of me, that kept telling myself the further along in this pregnancy you get, the worse this is going to be when it happens. There was no, it's not going to happen. It was just, it will happen and at some point, um, it's going to be to a point where you're going to have to deliver a full term baby and, and you might not ever have that child in your life. And I just tried very hard to try and connect with the pregnancy. I loved Milo from the very beginning. And having a pregnancy with a child who was talking about him helped make it a bit more real, but I did struggle to ever see an end to it. I never relaxed the entire pregnancy. And I think that probably led to, towards the end of the pregnancy, I was quite unwell. And I think it was probably just due to stress and anxiety. That just I couldn't do anything to settle that, which was quite difficult.
Speaker 1
It must have been. Is there anything else you'd like to share about your experience of all of this?
Speaker 2
Um, I mean, it's, it's so, it's huge. You start talking about one thing and you think about something else and, um I just, I just think it's important to try and and remember that those babies no matter what they are to anybody else, were your babies and try and if you want to remember them if you want, if you have a certain way. We see Robins a lot. And we call our twins the Bobbins. Because they bobbed in and they bobbed out, and they were only here for a moment, but that's what we call them. And every time we see a Robin, we just always think maybe that's them sending a sign. And I don't know if it's because now I'm more tuned in to the fact that they're around or, that I will always see a Robin. Um, if I think about them, I'll see one or if I'm you know, if I'm feeling anxious, I'll see one. And for me, that just brings me a little bit of comfort. And I know that there's probably people out there who would just laugh and say, she lives near the woods, there's going to be Robins, but to me, that's, I allow myself to, to believe that, that it could sometimes be a little bit of a sign or even if it's not, it's just something that keeps them in my, fresh in my mind and for people who've been through it, um, it's just nice to, to remember their babies and to keep them with them. Um, I have a friend who texts me every year on their due date, without fail. She texts me and she says that she's thinking about me. And it, she is the only person who remembers that date, aside from myself. My partner doesn't remember it. My family don't remember it because it never came to be. So it wasn't really very significant to them. But it felt huge to me, it was what I was working towards. So um, I think that's really important. I think just allowing yourself to, a minute just to remember that they were here, they were everything in that time that they were here and even though they might not be physically around, you will love them forever. So I think it's really important to try and not suppress that and just kind of celebrate it if that makes sense. Celebrate is probably not the right word, but just cherish it, keep it, it is special. I think that's one of the things that I've struggled with. Sorry, that's my dog making funny noises
Speaker 1
Sorry, you were saying something really beautiful ,then the dog started making monster noises in the background.
Speaker 2
I think I've probably got, yeah, I just think it's really important, that is so important to keep your babies as part of your life if you want to think about them. I'm just going to tell him to be quiet. Sorry. Um, yeah, I think if I could give myself any advice that, going back right to the beginning, that would have been it and just to, to not feel guilty and allow yourself to feel whatever you're feeling at that point. And if whether people dismiss it, or whether they are with you, it doesn't really matter, how you feel is valid. And it doesn't matter what other people have been through. It doesn't matter if people can't understand because I think people do struggle to understand baby loss if they've not been through it themselves. And just to allow yourself to feel what you need to feel at the time when you are feeling it and not to, not to bury it, to try and make somebody else feel better. Because it will come out. It does come out.
Speaker 1
Thank you.
Speaker 2
No, thank you.
Speaker 1
Thank you very much for sharing that with us. And I'm really sorry.
Speaker 2
I am for you as well. It's an awful, horrible club to be a part of it really is.
Speaker 1
I was talking to somebody else yesterday and they said just that, like it's, it's a club you never wanted to be a member of. A secret society you never wanted to be a member of.
Speaker 2
It's true. And it's horrible that it's this sort of, it's, that it's a secret society because I don't know why it should be but, but it really is. If you talk to the wrong person about it, they'll shut you down straightaway. It is, it's, it's strange.
Speaker 1
I don't have any more questions to ask you now. Thank you very much for talking through. I mean, if there's anything else that you kind of, you think of that you want to add in, you can message me or we can do another little session or whatever. But I think I mean, you. Thank you for talking so candidly about your experience.
Speaker 2
That's okay. I hope it helps you and I hope it helps.
Speaker 1
Yeah, thanks. Okay, well, I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Speaker 2
Are you okay?
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm okay. That's what everyone keeps asking me that.
Speaker 2
It's horrible, isn't it? It's just it's such a, oh, it hurts.
Speaker 1
It really does. Yeah. Gosh, I'm quite haunted by the fact that it went on so long for you after you knew that you'd lost your babies.
Speaker 2
I think a huge part of it is, the same in any sort of gynecology issue, is that people don't listen to you, when you tell them that you know. I'm sure, I'm positive that there were certain points in my journey with the hospital where they rolled their eyes at me, and they thought that I didn't know what I was talking about. And I, and I guess I understand it, because I couldn't put my finger on it. It was just a case of, um, I'd see positive tests and I'd show my husband and he'd say he couldn't see the line. And I'd be like, but, but I can see, I felt like Lady Macbeth. I was like, I can see it. And nobody would, it felt like nobody was listening to me. And then I'd have a blood test and the blood test would 100% confirm that what I was saying was right, and I think, I think it happens a lot when it's something, I don't... I went to GPs in between, as well as spoke to them and I had to really push to be referred. And I've had an amazing consultant, my consultant was fabulous and I think I only really got to her through persistently irritating the rest of them until they just wanted to pass me somewhere else. And when they did, she was incredible. And she, she got it, she listened to me and she had me in again, after she done the D&C because I think she thought I was being paranoid because she just said go ,go and live your life now. And, and I still was having problems and I've had adhesions from the surgery where afterwards as well, and that was what the feeling was, and I could feel it and she's like, I don't think so. But she did hysteroscopy anyway, and then she's like, oh, okay, yeah. So I think it's just, if you know your body very well, people don't always give you the credit. So I think my journey probably would have been a lot better had I known how to speak up for myself a bit more. I've learned that since when I went in for Milo I told them exactly how I wanted it to be and how it was going to be and had a much more positive experience than I did with Evie and than I did with the twins. But yeah, they don't, it doesn't help that people don't listen. Like when I was hemorrhaging as well, I had, when I had this hemorrhage I told them that that was happening and they completely brushed it off. This nurse was almost rude to me. And then the health, it just took one person, a health care assistant, to come in and go into the bathroom to make sure everything was okay and they were all, the bedpans lined up just like full of blood. And she, she rushed out and pressed the buzzer and that's when everything happened. But just people weren't listening at the time. So. So yeah. I think it's hard when you don't know what you're going through and you're scared to, to get somebody to listen to you as well. And that's why I think it's important to trust how you're feeling and just to to know that even if somebody is telling you you're not feeling that it doesn't mean that you're not. You just don't listen to them, just show up until, until they do listen. But yeah, it's, it was a long journey.
Speaker 1
Well, it seems ridiculous thing to say, well done for finding the courage to advocate for yourself. And I'm really sorry that you had to do that. And I, you know, I've interviewed a few different women about this now, and you know, everyone has a very, very different experience. But you're not the first person I've spoken to who hasn't been properly listened to. And overridden you know, and then had to really suffer as a result of that. So there's something still really wrong in our healthcare system that just doesn't. It doesn't credit women with knowledge of their own bodies.
Speaker 2
And yet they'll tell you how strong the mother's instinct is. And I think it's one of those situations were actually, for me, that's, that's true. It was so strong, everything about what was, they wouldn't have been able to do anything to change it, it was just one of those things, it was very early on, there was nothing that could have happened to change the outcome. But just the amount of fighting that you have to do to get somebody to listen to you. Is, is just eye opening, really.
Speaker 1
And unnecessarily traumatic, actually, in the long run. It was, it was already a really traumatic thing that you had gone through. And then...
Speaker 2
I'm glad it's over. I'm glad its, I'm glad it's in the past now, I really am. And that, I always say, because it's one in four, I'm really hoping that I just took that for my, my sisters as well. And that my experience is their experience. So they don't have to ever go through that themselves. Because it was, um, it's a hard thing, isn't it? And if your, people in your family have never known anyone to go through it, or they haven't been through it themselves, I think they struggle to know how to, how to comfort you as well. I've heard things that's just like, oh, oh, maybe one day and I hope you never have to go through it, but maybe one day, you'll understand why saying that was just a little bit like, oh, maybe you shouldn't have said that. But people, I've been very lucky, it's always only ever come from a good place. I've never had anybody trying to make me feel bad, like no one's ever used it against me, thankfully, or had opinions that weren't kind or come from a good place, which I think is good.
Speaker 1
So, um, I'm going to, I think I'm going to stop recording now, unless there's anything else you'd like to add in? Thank you. I, that was really helpful the last bit that we discussed there as well. So I hope you're going to do something nice today after, after this conversation.
Speaker 2
Yes, I am. I'm going to go and give that little girl a big squeeze I think. We're doing homeschooling, which will definitely make me realise that I'm not as clever as my five year old. Give me something else to think about.
Speaker 1
Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me.
Speaker 2
Thank you.
Speaker 1
Really Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2
And you, I think what you're doing is amazing. So, I'd be very interested to see it all
Speaker 1
Well, I'll let you know when the first bit of the websites up and together and then kind of keep you posted through the next bit of the process as well.
Speaker 2
Lovely. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1
I can't believe how good Evie was the whole time.
Speaker 2
She's been incredible this week, she's been, because I'm just come back to work after maternity leave. So I'm working from home and training, doing a lot of training, training other people and training myself, and she's just been incredible she really has. And Milo to be fair. I know when he goes down for his nap.
Speaker 1
I didn't even hear Milo. Where is Milo? There he is.
Speaker 2
Milo's in bed.
Speaker 1
Alright. Well, I will leave you to the rest of your day. Thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Thanks very much. You take care.
Speaker 1
Bye bye Sally.
Speaker 2
Bye bye. Thank you.